Vintage Watches > Vintage Watch Thoughts
I discovered
vintage watches in earnest only recently,
after collecting new watches for several years.
I made some important discoveries almost immediately:
1) the features and complications that are most desirable and expensive in modern watches are commonplace in even mid-level watches produced up until the 1970s
2) while vintage watches are less expensive than modern watches, condition is everything in terms of enjoyment of aquiring vintage watches. The price of a vintage watch reflects its condition, and unless you enjoy/can overhaul the watches yourself, it's better to pay more for watches in excellent condition than to pay less for beat-up watches
3) you can assemble an excellent watch wardrobe of a sports chronograph, daily watch and dress watch, all from great brands, for between $2000 - $5000 for all three. This is less than any one of these watches would cost from the same brands in the modern watch market
Please take this essay for what it is: namely, the reflections of someone learning about vintage watches, but with a lot of perspective about collecting watches in general. I am not an expert yet, but I want to share my learning to date and to make a case for vintage watches, in the context of watch collecting generally.
In regards to point one above, consider that for the first 50 years or so of wristwatches, the brands made their own movements. Nowadays, collectors place a premium on the prestige of "in-house" movements. Manufacturers like Jaeger LeCoultre, Patek Philippe, Zenith, Chopard, Audemars Piguet and others who mostly make their own calibers are considered horological bonafides, owing to the fact that they are "manufactures". So, to aquire a moden watch from a "manufacture" with an in-house caliber costs a lot more money than buying a watch with an outsourced ETA movement. However, up through the 1960s, wristwatch brands made their own movements -- all brands from cheap to expensive had in-house calibers! Furthernore, it was in these companies' best interest to innovate, and caliber advancements in those days were for reliability and timing excellence, as opposed to today's manufacturer caliber advancements which are mostly marketing driven.
As for my favorite complication, chronographs, today the vast majority are driven by a Valjoux/ETA 7750 or an ETA 2824 or 2892 with a chronograph module from Depraz Dubous. Let me stress, these are cost-effective movements that perform very well and will run for decades. If it were not for these caliber solutions, only the wealthiest watch collectors could afford to own a chronograph. These calibers are affordable because they have been engineered with modest production costs in mind. There is, however, a chronograph caliber design which is more costly to produce, and offers several performance advantages over the aforementioned calibers, named "column wheel" construction.
In the modern watch market, "column wheel" construction chronograph calibers command a high price premium. I think that the entry-level column wheel chronograph in the modern market is the Omega Broadarrow with a Piguet caliber, with a retail price of $4495. In the vintage market, for most chronographs produced up through the 1960s, guess what? Column wheel calibers were the standard. Brands didn't consider an alternative, because these calibers worked optimally.
In summary of point one: watch features or attributes that are considered "elite" in the modern watch marketplace were standard in years past. Some of the best and most afforable calibers available in the Vintage market are:
1) Omega Calibers: 30mm and the 5XX series
2) IWC Caliber 89
3) chronograph calibers from Exelsior Park, Venus, the Valjoux Calibers 22, 23, 72 and 88
Another cool aspect to collecting vintage watches is that brands fought to establish themselves on the basis of accurate timekeeping and reliability. We take accuracy and reliability for granted today, but in the 1930s - 1950s shock-protection, water-resistance and chronometer-rated timekeeping were anything but assured. What were yesteryear's elite watches, like the Omega Constellation, are now abundant in the vintage market for just a few hundred dollars up to a few thousand dollars for 18kt gold models in perfect condition. Once again, buying one of today's elite watches will cost upwards of $5000, while elite watches from the real glory days of wristwatches are accessible and abundant to collectors today for a fraction of the price of a new model.
Coming to condition, I believe that this is all-critical. Here are some basic issues related to the condition of vintage watches:
** Dials: To refinish them or not? Vintage watch purists frown on dials that have been cosmetically restored. For collectability and value-retention, it is better to have original unrestored dials. Vintage dealers will tell you if a dial has been refinished/restored. If you are simply aquiring the watches to wear them, this issue may be of less importance... legibility and dial crispness are important if you are planning to wear the watches
** Movements: 100% original or have aftermarket parts been used? This is especially important in complicated watches, since there are more parts involved. Also, if the manufacturer is now defunct, parts may be impossible to aquire. Collectability requires that the movements be 100% original. Once again, if you plan to wear the watches... they need to work, so maybe aftermarket parts are acceptable.
As you can see, a collector's perspective may be different from a wearer's perspective. Personally, I want to wear the watches that I buy. One word of advice from me: it is a big asset if you have a watchmaker who can competently overhaul/repair your watches for you.... try to find a good watchmaker who you trust if you want to start aquiring vintage watches!
In terms of how much you should expect to pay for a vintage watch, each watch will have a price range which is basically a function of the watch's condition. This brings me to the sponsorship of the Vintage area on Watchfinder.net. I learned a tremendous amount about vintage watches by visiting Joseph-Watches.com, owned by Gisbert Joseph. I say these nice things about his business/site not because he is our sponsor, rather I approached him to be our sponsor because he is the leading vintage dealer. Vintage watches from Gisbert have all been overhauled mechanically using only original parts (of which he has a huge inventory) and the cases have been polished. In addition to these services, his watches are sold with a warranty and all work is performed by a full-time staff of master watchmakers. His watches may cost more than some other dealers, but when you receive them, they are ready for wear and/or to be added to your collection... they looks almost brand new. For me, this is important and that's why Gisbert was selected to be our sponsor.
Lastly, gold watches... I like gold watches with classical dials. I can not afford modern gold watches, at least not to collect them. Gold watches are quite accessible in the vintage market, however, as the gold-price-premium charged by the manufacturer has long-since been paid. A more economical alternative to solid gold is gold-filled, which is basically a gold case over base metal (not to be confused with gold plating. Gold-filled watches have a lot of gold content whereas gold plating is very thin).
Thank you for reading and please enjoy your watch experiences!
1) the features and complications that are most desirable and expensive in modern watches are commonplace in even mid-level watches produced up until the 1970s
2) while vintage watches are less expensive than modern watches, condition is everything in terms of enjoyment of aquiring vintage watches. The price of a vintage watch reflects its condition, and unless you enjoy/can overhaul the watches yourself, it's better to pay more for watches in excellent condition than to pay less for beat-up watches
3) you can assemble an excellent watch wardrobe of a sports chronograph, daily watch and dress watch, all from great brands, for between $2000 - $5000 for all three. This is less than any one of these watches would cost from the same brands in the modern watch market
Please take this essay for what it is: namely, the reflections of someone learning about vintage watches, but with a lot of perspective about collecting watches in general. I am not an expert yet, but I want to share my learning to date and to make a case for vintage watches, in the context of watch collecting generally.
In regards to point one above, consider that for the first 50 years or so of wristwatches, the brands made their own movements. Nowadays, collectors place a premium on the prestige of "in-house" movements. Manufacturers like Jaeger LeCoultre, Patek Philippe, Zenith, Chopard, Audemars Piguet and others who mostly make their own calibers are considered horological bonafides, owing to the fact that they are "manufactures". So, to aquire a moden watch from a "manufacture" with an in-house caliber costs a lot more money than buying a watch with an outsourced ETA movement. However, up through the 1960s, wristwatch brands made their own movements -- all brands from cheap to expensive had in-house calibers! Furthernore, it was in these companies' best interest to innovate, and caliber advancements in those days were for reliability and timing excellence, as opposed to today's manufacturer caliber advancements which are mostly marketing driven.
As for my favorite complication, chronographs, today the vast majority are driven by a Valjoux/ETA 7750 or an ETA 2824 or 2892 with a chronograph module from Depraz Dubous. Let me stress, these are cost-effective movements that perform very well and will run for decades. If it were not for these caliber solutions, only the wealthiest watch collectors could afford to own a chronograph. These calibers are affordable because they have been engineered with modest production costs in mind. There is, however, a chronograph caliber design which is more costly to produce, and offers several performance advantages over the aforementioned calibers, named "column wheel" construction.
In the modern watch market, "column wheel" construction chronograph calibers command a high price premium. I think that the entry-level column wheel chronograph in the modern market is the Omega Broadarrow with a Piguet caliber, with a retail price of $4495. In the vintage market, for most chronographs produced up through the 1960s, guess what? Column wheel calibers were the standard. Brands didn't consider an alternative, because these calibers worked optimally.
In summary of point one: watch features or attributes that are considered "elite" in the modern watch marketplace were standard in years past. Some of the best and most afforable calibers available in the Vintage market are:
1) Omega Calibers: 30mm and the 5XX series
2) IWC Caliber 89
3) chronograph calibers from Exelsior Park, Venus, the Valjoux Calibers 22, 23, 72 and 88
Another cool aspect to collecting vintage watches is that brands fought to establish themselves on the basis of accurate timekeeping and reliability. We take accuracy and reliability for granted today, but in the 1930s - 1950s shock-protection, water-resistance and chronometer-rated timekeeping were anything but assured. What were yesteryear's elite watches, like the Omega Constellation, are now abundant in the vintage market for just a few hundred dollars up to a few thousand dollars for 18kt gold models in perfect condition. Once again, buying one of today's elite watches will cost upwards of $5000, while elite watches from the real glory days of wristwatches are accessible and abundant to collectors today for a fraction of the price of a new model.
Coming to condition, I believe that this is all-critical. Here are some basic issues related to the condition of vintage watches:
** Dials: To refinish them or not? Vintage watch purists frown on dials that have been cosmetically restored. For collectability and value-retention, it is better to have original unrestored dials. Vintage dealers will tell you if a dial has been refinished/restored. If you are simply aquiring the watches to wear them, this issue may be of less importance... legibility and dial crispness are important if you are planning to wear the watches
** Movements: 100% original or have aftermarket parts been used? This is especially important in complicated watches, since there are more parts involved. Also, if the manufacturer is now defunct, parts may be impossible to aquire. Collectability requires that the movements be 100% original. Once again, if you plan to wear the watches... they need to work, so maybe aftermarket parts are acceptable.
As you can see, a collector's perspective may be different from a wearer's perspective. Personally, I want to wear the watches that I buy. One word of advice from me: it is a big asset if you have a watchmaker who can competently overhaul/repair your watches for you.... try to find a good watchmaker who you trust if you want to start aquiring vintage watches!
In terms of how much you should expect to pay for a vintage watch, each watch will have a price range which is basically a function of the watch's condition. This brings me to the sponsorship of the Vintage area on Watchfinder.net. I learned a tremendous amount about vintage watches by visiting Joseph-Watches.com, owned by Gisbert Joseph. I say these nice things about his business/site not because he is our sponsor, rather I approached him to be our sponsor because he is the leading vintage dealer. Vintage watches from Gisbert have all been overhauled mechanically using only original parts (of which he has a huge inventory) and the cases have been polished. In addition to these services, his watches are sold with a warranty and all work is performed by a full-time staff of master watchmakers. His watches may cost more than some other dealers, but when you receive them, they are ready for wear and/or to be added to your collection... they looks almost brand new. For me, this is important and that's why Gisbert was selected to be our sponsor.
Lastly, gold watches... I like gold watches with classical dials. I can not afford modern gold watches, at least not to collect them. Gold watches are quite accessible in the vintage market, however, as the gold-price-premium charged by the manufacturer has long-since been paid. A more economical alternative to solid gold is gold-filled, which is basically a gold case over base metal (not to be confused with gold plating. Gold-filled watches have a lot of gold content whereas gold plating is very thin).
Thank you for reading and please enjoy your watch experiences!